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	<title>Comments on: Marking Up The Fab Four: Just Imagine What XML Could Do For Your Books</title>
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	<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/</link>
	<description>Content is a business asset worthy of being managed</description>
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		<title>By: The Content Wrangler &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Times They Are A Changin’ – But Most Publishers Aren’t</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>The Content Wrangler &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Times They Are A Changin’ – But Most Publishers Aren’t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 01:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] I outlined in my last post, using XML allows the publisher to add real value to the content; it also allows them to fully [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I outlined in my last post, using XML allows the publisher to add real value to the content; it also allows them to fully [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McNamara</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-663</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike McNamara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-663</guid>
		<description>Totally agree with Richard, ensuring that XML is not seen as &#039;too technical&#039; is the key to its wider acceptance not only in editorial groups, but also across the whole publishing production environment. I think it is getting better, but there is till a fair way to go.

Better tools &#039;distancing&#039; editorial staff from the need to &#039;know&#039; XML are becoming available and will help, as will greater adoption of &#039;standard&#039; schema&#039;s. However, it is inevitable that there will always some degree of a &#039;technical&#039; slant when dealing with some XML&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree with Richard, ensuring that XML is not seen as &#8216;too technical&#8217; is the key to its wider acceptance not only in editorial groups, but also across the whole publishing production environment. I think it is getting better, but there is till a fair way to go.</p>
<p>Better tools &#8216;distancing&#8217; editorial staff from the need to &#8216;know&#8217; XML are becoming available and will help, as will greater adoption of &#8216;standard&#8217; schema&#8217;s. However, it is inevitable that there will always some degree of a &#8216;technical&#8217; slant when dealing with some XML&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-662</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-662</guid>
		<description>Ivan,

You put your finger on a major issue. Without a doubt, the biggest hurdle to moving to XML is getting past the idea that it&#039;s &quot;too technical.&quot;  That goes hand-in-hand with the idea that XML will make you write differently, which implies that it will restrict your style.

Neither is true:

- For a writer, XML is just a way to mark up text, and the best XML editors make XML easy to author and edit. Any competent writer who can use Word or Frame can learn to use XML.

- Some XML schemas (I&#039;m thinking of DITA here) were designed with a particular methodology in mind. But other schemas (e.g., DocBook) are agnostic about methodology. Some organizations choose to adopt a new methodology at the same time that they adopt XML, and that is often a good idea, but XML, even DITA, does not enforce any particular methodology; you can be as disciplined or as sloppy as you choose.

The XML community in general has not been very good at making these points; we tend to be techies who have a hard time understanding writers&#039; concerns, and are often dismissive of them. Even if these concerns are not &quot;technically&quot; valid, in practice they remain a true obstacle to XML adoption that managers must address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan,</p>
<p>You put your finger on a major issue. Without a doubt, the biggest hurdle to moving to XML is getting past the idea that it&#8217;s &#8220;too technical.&#8221;  That goes hand-in-hand with the idea that XML will make you write differently, which implies that it will restrict your style.</p>
<p>Neither is true:</p>
<p>- For a writer, XML is just a way to mark up text, and the best XML editors make XML easy to author and edit. Any competent writer who can use Word or Frame can learn to use XML.</p>
<p>- Some XML schemas (I&#8217;m thinking of DITA here) were designed with a particular methodology in mind. But other schemas (e.g., DocBook) are agnostic about methodology. Some organizations choose to adopt a new methodology at the same time that they adopt XML, and that is often a good idea, but XML, even DITA, does not enforce any particular methodology; you can be as disciplined or as sloppy as you choose.</p>
<p>The XML community in general has not been very good at making these points; we tend to be techies who have a hard time understanding writers&#8217; concerns, and are often dismissive of them. Even if these concerns are not &#8220;technically&#8221; valid, in practice they remain a true obstacle to XML adoption that managers must address.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Walsh</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-661</guid>
		<description>Hi article Scott and Alan, of course.

My take on this is that Microsoft will start to make Word more powerful – in the real sense – or offer an entry-level version of Sharepoint to capitalize on what it offers.

The business benefits are obvious, i.e. with content distribution.

It when you mention the tools, such as XML, that people switch off.

They assume it’s too technical and not for them.

Ivan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi article Scott and Alan, of course.</p>
<p>My take on this is that Microsoft will start to make Word more powerful – in the real sense – or offer an entry-level version of Sharepoint to capitalize on what it offers.</p>
<p>The business benefits are obvious, i.e. with content distribution.</p>
<p>It when you mention the tools, such as XML, that people switch off.</p>
<p>They assume it’s too technical and not for them.</p>
<p>Ivan</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McNamara</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike McNamara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-660</guid>
		<description>Sadly despite the good intentions and much explanation of the benefits, I&#039;ve always found that getting any group of people to accurately follow a Word Style/Template will always throw up issues, even if there just Typo&#039;s. I worked on a project last year for a major Educational publisher and they had reported back three failed attempts at rolling out Templates that people needed to use. The plan was not flawed, it was just that the average person could not be bothered or did not pay enough attention to what they were doing. Sadly despite fixing this issue with the &#039;right&#039; tools, editorial decided to abandon XML completely!!! Sadly they will regret this.

I think as editorial staff become more understanding of what it means to get the &#039;coding&#039; right at the beginning, the better and easier it will become; but there is still a long way to go to marry the &#039;open&#039; editorial world of Microsoft Word with what publishers need, XML.

Two projects I am currently working on are addressing this through plug-ins for Word that from a simple template driven Word file, full blown XML against a rich DTD can be extracted (no RTF involved) and the XML reused for multiple publications. However, there will still be a need for some in-house editorial clean-up, sometimes using Word and sometimes using XML editors for complex &#039;stuff&#039; as at the end of the day a publisher will sacrifice any kind of format control on its contributors if the content is so valuable, and they will &#039;tag&#039; it up themselves. But XML really is the only way to go.

I think from my discussions, XML could get a lot of focus this year. I&#039;ll follow this conversation with interest and post some more at another time, but an interesting topic for discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly despite the good intentions and much explanation of the benefits, I&#8217;ve always found that getting any group of people to accurately follow a Word Style/Template will always throw up issues, even if there just Typo&#8217;s. I worked on a project last year for a major Educational publisher and they had reported back three failed attempts at rolling out Templates that people needed to use. The plan was not flawed, it was just that the average person could not be bothered or did not pay enough attention to what they were doing. Sadly despite fixing this issue with the &#8216;right&#8217; tools, editorial decided to abandon XML completely!!! Sadly they will regret this.</p>
<p>I think as editorial staff become more understanding of what it means to get the &#8216;coding&#8217; right at the beginning, the better and easier it will become; but there is still a long way to go to marry the &#8216;open&#8217; editorial world of Microsoft Word with what publishers need, XML.</p>
<p>Two projects I am currently working on are addressing this through plug-ins for Word that from a simple template driven Word file, full blown XML against a rich DTD can be extracted (no RTF involved) and the XML reused for multiple publications. However, there will still be a need for some in-house editorial clean-up, sometimes using Word and sometimes using XML editors for complex &#8216;stuff&#8217; as at the end of the day a publisher will sacrifice any kind of format control on its contributors if the content is so valuable, and they will &#8216;tag&#8217; it up themselves. But XML really is the only way to go.</p>
<p>I think from my discussions, XML could get a lot of focus this year. I&#8217;ll follow this conversation with interest and post some more at another time, but an interesting topic for discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Bottrill</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-659</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Bottrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-659</guid>
		<description>Fair comment. I&#039;ll be interested to see how the conversation develops. To date we&#039;ve been successfully working with our suppliers and editors in using Word templates tied to client DTDs to deliver XML. Admittedly it&#039;s not directly XML up front in Word but, providing we stick to the DTD via the template, the conversion works well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair comment. I&#8217;ll be interested to see how the conversation develops. To date we&#8217;ve been successfully working with our suppliers and editors in using Word templates tied to client DTDs to deliver XML. Admittedly it&#8217;s not directly XML up front in Word but, providing we stick to the DTD via the template, the conversion works well.</p>
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		<title>By: scottabel</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-658</link>
		<dc:creator>scottabel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-658</guid>
		<description>Jo:

Thanks for your comment, but I hate when people say &quot;Word styles would be fine&quot;. Actually, that&#039;s not going to provide much benefit to the company as a whole, nor help them remain competitive. Look to these pages in future days as we clearly spell out the challenges publishers are facing, how they are actually already using XML inside their own companies, and how doing this would provide them with myriad benefits. Also watch as I attempt to make the case to shareholders and investors that putting money into companies that aren&#039;t using efficient processes wastes money, time, and human resources -- and fails to provide them with maximum ROI.

Thanks for your comment. I do know where you are heading with your comment, but, in today&#039;s world, it&#039;s just not good enough -- and good enough, ain&#039;t all that good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jo:</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment, but I hate when people say &#8220;Word styles would be fine&#8221;. Actually, that&#8217;s not going to provide much benefit to the company as a whole, nor help them remain competitive. Look to these pages in future days as we clearly spell out the challenges publishers are facing, how they are actually already using XML inside their own companies, and how doing this would provide them with myriad benefits. Also watch as I attempt to make the case to shareholders and investors that putting money into companies that aren&#8217;t using efficient processes wastes money, time, and human resources &#8212; and fails to provide them with maximum ROI.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. I do know where you are heading with your comment, but, in today&#8217;s world, it&#8217;s just not good enough &#8212; and good enough, ain&#8217;t all that good.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Bottrill</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-657</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Bottrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-657</guid>
		<description>Great overview. I firmly believe that including mark-up in production workflows early gives everyone a better understanding of the content they&#039;re working on. Not only does it make production of multiple outputs more efficient it yields greater consistency and better organised content. If we can get authors to embrace the structure of their work (not necessarily through complex XML mark-up - using Word styles would be fine) these efficiencies and improvements to content would benefit us all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great overview. I firmly believe that including mark-up in production workflows early gives everyone a better understanding of the content they&#8217;re working on. Not only does it make production of multiple outputs more efficient it yields greater consistency and better organised content. If we can get authors to embrace the structure of their work (not necessarily through complex XML mark-up &#8211; using Word styles would be fine) these efficiencies and improvements to content would benefit us all.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Mcnamara</title>
		<link>http://thecontentwrangler.com/2010/02/02/marking-up-the-fab-four-just-imagine-what-xml-could-do-for-your-books/comment-page-1/#comment-656</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Mcnamara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecontentwrangler.com/?p=3809#comment-656</guid>
		<description>Hi Alan, Interesting article, I liked your comparison with the IETM. Perhaps the ebook will catapult the use of XML into the commercial production arena at long last, although all of the projects that I have worked on for the last three/four years have included XML in some way.

Regards
Mike McNamara</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alan, Interesting article, I liked your comparison with the IETM. Perhaps the ebook will catapult the use of XML into the commercial production arena at long last, although all of the projects that I have worked on for the last three/four years have included XML in some way.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Mike McNamara</p>
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